Signposts to character

Here are some fragments of a discussion I am having elsewhere on the significance of the book of Proverbs. At issue is the question as to whether the consequences described are to be taken as divine prescriptions or just as general observations which are usually but not always true. In other words, how normative are these sayings?


Ron August 6 at 3:41am

Hey Guys, it's 3 am, can't sleep so I'm reading proverbs. Here's a few examples of what I was talking about:

Prov 21:21 "An inheritance quickly gained at the beginning will not be blessed at the end". I would say this is true most of the time, but not always. (Depending on your def. of blessed.

Prov 15:22 "Plans fail for lack of counsel, but with many advisers they succeed". This is likely true, but I'm sure there are examples of the opposite.

Prov 23:20 "Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor and drowsiness clothes them in rags." Again, I would say it's generally true, but there are (or seem to be) exceptions where people eat and drink for their whole lives and don't become poor. (Although this could be talking about the next life.)

Prov 19:15 "Laziness brings on deep sleep and the shiftless man goes hungry." I think it would be pretty hard to argue that this is 100 accurate all the time

Prov 12:11 "he who works his land will have abundant food"...
Even during drought?

Anyway, I concede that there are many Proverbs that are fairly concrete in their instruction, especially when they speak of the Lord and his faithfulness. Obviously these are written in such a way that you either believe it or not.

Any, getting tired - lol

Blessings

RB

Phil Garber August 6 at 11:03am

Hi Ron, I guess you're a little tired today.

Prov 12:11 "he who works his land will have abundant food"...
Even during drought?

Yes, because he will have food stored up from the previous year's crop. (ref. Egypt under Joseph). The point as I take it is not that the diligent will have a bumper crop in every year.( I doubt the writer of this proverb was ignorant of agricultural cycles.) It is that those who work their land diligently from year to year will have a surplus available for the lean times (at least compared to their more lazy, shiftless, gluttonous neighbours!).

The way I take these proverbs is that they describe principles of cause and effect as immutable as the law of gravity. To point to cases where the consequence was avoided through other factors does not invalidate the principle, anymore than the existence of an airplane invalidates the law of gravity. The downward pressure is always there.

Eg: The shiftless do not go hungry in our society, but that is only because we have welfare. But welfare is only possible in a society where the producers outnumber the consumers. A society which is shiftless as a whole will certainly have a declining standard of living.

Eg: Someone who gets an easy inheritance without learning to struggle may not die poor, but he will almost certainly die less wealthy than he began. The inheritance will not be blessed (ie will not increase) without qualities of self-control, prudence and diligence. Even if this person does not taste poverty in his lifetime, the principle will still be at work and the consequences generational. ("Shirtsleeves to shirtsleeves in three generations").

Phil Garber August 6 at 11:09am

The proverbs which mean most to me go beyond general principles and contain explicit or implied promises (especially those in Prov 3). "He will direct your paths" is one of them. These I choose to believe.

But the problem with Proverbs I believe is not that Christians take them too seriously or literally, but that they don't take them seriously enough. If they did we would see a lot more fruit in the Body. Spiritual growth cannot be separated from growth in character and all of these proverbs are signposts to character.